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FòrumCAT

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  3. Live testing of remote categories

Live testing of remote categories

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activitypubnodebbactivityp
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  • A This user is from outside of this forum
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    altcode@community.nodebb.org
    wrote on 25 Mar 2025, 19:32 last edited by
    #25

    Some interesting bugs atm 😈

    All the ActivityPub groups I was following prior to this update were successfully migrated to become remote categories (good!), but now that they are no longer treated as remote users, this has left behind a bunch of "guest" users in my /following page.
    Screenshot 2025-03-25 at 20.16.23.png

    Also due to the migration, a bunch of topics that used to be categorised under @activitypub, were automatically moved to [[@activitypub](https://community.nodebb.org/category/30/activitypub)@forum.wedistribute.org](https://community.nodebb.org/category/activitypub@forum.wedistribute.org)!
    Screenshot 2025-03-25 at 19.54.11.png

    I presume this happened because [[@activitypub](https://community.nodebb.org/category/30/activitypub)@forum.wedistribute.org](https://community.nodebb.org/category/activitypub@forum.wedistribute.org) is set to mirror @activitypub. I'm guessing that since the group actor was sharing all these posts, once NodeBB recognised it as a remote category instead, it began to treating those share activities as move actions.

    Seeing how NodeBB does not have a notion of topics belonging to multiple categories, you might want to revisit how you handle remote categories that follow and mirror local categories.

    J 1 Reply Last reply 25 Mar 2025, 19:58
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    • A altcode@community.nodebb.org
      25 Mar 2025, 19:32

      Some interesting bugs atm 😈

      All the ActivityPub groups I was following prior to this update were successfully migrated to become remote categories (good!), but now that they are no longer treated as remote users, this has left behind a bunch of "guest" users in my /following page.
      Screenshot 2025-03-25 at 20.16.23.png

      Also due to the migration, a bunch of topics that used to be categorised under @activitypub, were automatically moved to [[@activitypub](https://community.nodebb.org/category/30/activitypub)@forum.wedistribute.org](https://community.nodebb.org/category/activitypub@forum.wedistribute.org)!
      Screenshot 2025-03-25 at 19.54.11.png

      I presume this happened because [[@activitypub](https://community.nodebb.org/category/30/activitypub)@forum.wedistribute.org](https://community.nodebb.org/category/activitypub@forum.wedistribute.org) is set to mirror @activitypub. I'm guessing that since the group actor was sharing all these posts, once NodeBB recognised it as a remote category instead, it began to treating those share activities as move actions.

      Seeing how NodeBB does not have a notion of topics belonging to multiple categories, you might want to revisit how you handle remote categories that follow and mirror local categories.

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      julian@community.nodebb.org
      wrote on 25 Mar 2025, 19:58 last edited by
      #26

      @AltCode thanks for reporting! I'll take a look at those tomorrow.

      The topics being moved out is a byproduct of the migration. Looks like some tweaking is in order! Perhaps I'll only move topics whose main post is on the same domain.

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        julian@community.nodebb.org
        wrote on 25 Mar 2025, 20:32 last edited by
        #27

        @AltCode I've moved those topics back to the proper category 🤦

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          eeeee@community.nodebb.org
          wrote on 25 Mar 2025, 20:49 last edited by
          #28

          Edit: updated as had to click into category to follow

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            melroy@kbin.melroy.org
            wrote on 25 Mar 2025, 21:01 last edited by
            #29

            @julian@community.nodebb.org

            I can confirm it works with Mbin, look at my instance: https://kbin.melroy.org/m/activitypub@community.nodebb.org/p/286459/Happy-Tuesday-Today-we-ve-updated-the-NodeBB-community-forum-onto#post-comment-413326

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              silverpill@mitra.social
              wrote on 25 Mar 2025, 21:02 last edited by
              #30

              @julian @activitypub Makes sense. Were NodeBB's own federated categories represented as users prior to this change? Do you assume that all groups are FEP-1b12 groups?
              There was an interesting discussion on SocialHub on identifying FEP-1b12 groups and nutomic made a compelling argument that we should just assume that Group supports FEP-1b12 if there is no other indicator:

              https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/fep-1b12-group-federation/2724/96

              J 2 Replies Last reply 26 Mar 2025, 16:11
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              • S silverpill@mitra.social
                25 Mar 2025, 21:02

                @julian @activitypub Makes sense. Were NodeBB's own federated categories represented as users prior to this change? Do you assume that all groups are FEP-1b12 groups?
                There was an interesting discussion on SocialHub on identifying FEP-1b12 groups and nutomic made a compelling argument that we should just assume that Group supports FEP-1b12 if there is no other indicator:

                https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/fep-1b12-group-federation/2724/96

                J This user is from outside of this forum
                J This user is from outside of this forum
                julian@community.nodebb.org
                wrote on 26 Mar 2025, 16:11 last edited by
                #31

                @silverpill@mitra.social good questions!

                Local NodeBB categories are still federated out as ActivityPub actors, with as:type Group, they follow 1b12 as they always have.

                I do assume that group actors adhere to 1b12, but that doesn't stop others from creating topics by mentioning them directly. If a NodeBB instance happens to hear about that, we'll add it to the remote category.

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                  julian@community.nodebb.org
                  wrote on 26 Mar 2025, 18:13 last edited by
                  #32

                  @AltCode the two bugs you identified have been resolved, can you confirm the latter? The former I manually moved them back already to the right category.

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                    julian@community.nodebb.org
                    wrote on 26 Mar 2025, 18:26 last edited by
                    #33

                    Confirmed working with:

                    • PieFed Communities: PieFed Meta
                    • Flipboard Magazines: [Gear by @engadget@flipboard.com](https://community.nodebb.org/category/gear-engadget@flipboard.com)

                    However, while Flipboard magazines send Announces as per 1b12, and the items are added to the outbox, the objects themselves do not address the magazine at all, and so a backreference is missing. When they come into NodeBB, there's no pointer back to the group, and so it is slotted into the "uncategorized" bucket.

                    cc @mike@flipboard.social

                    tl;dr — can this object https://flipboard.com/users/Engadget/statuses/uva9misBSrqjCSR6mtzV6g:a:3199686 please include https://flipboard.com/@engadget/gear-nv6v86arz in its to or cc property?

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                      altcode@community.nodebb.org
                      wrote on 26 Mar 2025, 18:29 last edited by
                      #34

                      @julian Yes, I can confirm that the other bug has been fixed! There's no more guest accounts in my /following page.

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                        mike@flipboard.social
                        wrote on 27 Mar 2025, 05:12 last edited by
                        #35

                        @julian not sure. Cc’ing @jaonculverhouse

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                        • S silverpill@mitra.social
                          25 Mar 2025, 21:02

                          @julian @activitypub Makes sense. Were NodeBB's own federated categories represented as users prior to this change? Do you assume that all groups are FEP-1b12 groups?
                          There was an interesting discussion on SocialHub on identifying FEP-1b12 groups and nutomic made a compelling argument that we should just assume that Group supports FEP-1b12 if there is no other indicator:

                          https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/fep-1b12-group-federation/2724/96

                          J This user is from outside of this forum
                          J This user is from outside of this forum
                          julian@community.nodebb.org
                          wrote on 30 Mar 2025, 04:30 last edited by
                          #36

                          @silverpill@mitra.social I read back a bit to get a fuller context (not all the way, though, there's a damn lot of bikeshedding in that topic.)

                          Basically Nutomic is advocating against multi typing because it is poorly supported (true), and because Lemmy has first-mover advantage (also true.)

                          Requiring a multitype or boolean flag for 1b12 would be quite difficult to do because you'll never have 100% adoption and end up needing backwards compatibility with 1b12-classic anyway — cat's already out of the bag.

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                            scott@loves.tech
                            wrote on 30 Mar 2025, 04:53 last edited by
                            #37
                            @julian How do you deal with situations where the group actor also sends posts?

                            For example, on Hubzilla, (streams), and Forte, the top level post of a forum thread is from the forum, not the user. This was originally done for Mastodon compatibility since it did not understand threaded conversations and groups. They could follow the forum as if it were a user, and receive all of the forum posts. They could send a DM to the forum to create a new post.

                            NodeBB took a different approach, using boosts to distribute user posts to people who follow the forum. And I think you said you use mentions within a post to create a new top level post.

                            How are we handling the differences in approaches?
                            J 1 Reply Last reply 30 Mar 2025, 16:57
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                            • S scott@loves.tech
                              30 Mar 2025, 04:53
                              @julian How do you deal with situations where the group actor also sends posts?

                              For example, on Hubzilla, (streams), and Forte, the top level post of a forum thread is from the forum, not the user. This was originally done for Mastodon compatibility since it did not understand threaded conversations and groups. They could follow the forum as if it were a user, and receive all of the forum posts. They could send a DM to the forum to create a new post.

                              NodeBB took a different approach, using boosts to distribute user posts to people who follow the forum. And I think you said you use mentions within a post to create a new top level post.

                              How are we handling the differences in approaches?
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                              julian@community.nodebb.org
                              wrote on 30 Mar 2025, 16:57 last edited by julian@community.nodebb.org
                              #38

                              @scott@loves.tech can you share an example of a group actor from Hubzilla? Would be interesting to see how that's handled. Likely it wouldn't work properly because categories in NodeBB don't author posts.

                              Do your group actors send creates on behalf of regular users? That might work ok.

                              Lastly, there's no requirement that a NodeBB category be mentioned. It only needs to be addressed. A mention is the easiest way to do that because you addressing is abstracted out of the Mastodon UI.

                              But for things like PieFed, Lemmy, Mbin, and likely Hubzilla, you're able to change addressing based on where you create the post.

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                                scott@loves.tech
                                wrote on 30 Mar 2025, 17:09 last edited by
                                #39
                                @julian I'm not sure. They changed things in the last major version when they adopted FEP 171b Conversation Containers.

                                Some examples of forum channels are @Hubzilla Support Forum and @Neuhub Support Forum.
                                S 1 Reply Last reply 31 Mar 2025, 04:02
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                                  scott@loves.tech
                                  wrote on 30 Mar 2025, 17:22 last edited by
                                  #40
                                  @julian
                                  But for things like PieFed, Lemmy, Mbin, and likely Hubzilla, you're able to change addressing based on where you create the post.

                                  Yes, in Hubzilla, we can click on the padlock and select who the post is addressed to, including NodeBB forums. I haven't tried it yet, but Hubzilla does recognize NodeBB categories as "forums."
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                                    scott@loves.tech
                                    wrote on 31 Mar 2025, 03:54 last edited by
                                    #41
                                    @julian I just tried posting five different posts from Hubzilla to @Testing Ground via various methods, and none are showing up.

                                    1. Post from a group actor, selecting audience from list.
                                    2. Post from a group actor, using a mention.
                                    3. Post from a normal actor, selecting audience from list.
                                    4. Post from a normal actor, using a mention.
                                    5. Post from a normal actor, posting to a Hubzilla Forum (group actor) and mentioning the NodeBB category in the post.

                                    I am not sure if that forum is moderated, but none of my posts are showing up.
                                    S 1 Reply Last reply 31 Mar 2025, 04:29
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                                    • S scott@loves.tech
                                      30 Mar 2025, 17:09
                                      @julian I'm not sure. They changed things in the last major version when they adopted FEP 171b Conversation Containers.

                                      Some examples of forum channels are @Hubzilla Support Forum and @Neuhub Support Forum.
                                      S This user is from outside of this forum
                                      S This user is from outside of this forum
                                      scott@loves.tech
                                      wrote on 31 Mar 2025, 04:02 last edited by
                                      #42
                                      By the way, we also have a test forum set up here: @Neuhub Test Forum

                                      #^https://neuhub.org/channel/testforum
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                                      • S scott@loves.tech
                                        31 Mar 2025, 03:54
                                        @julian I just tried posting five different posts from Hubzilla to @Testing Ground via various methods, and none are showing up.

                                        1. Post from a group actor, selecting audience from list.
                                        2. Post from a group actor, using a mention.
                                        3. Post from a normal actor, selecting audience from list.
                                        4. Post from a normal actor, using a mention.
                                        5. Post from a normal actor, posting to a Hubzilla Forum (group actor) and mentioning the NodeBB category in the post.

                                        I am not sure if that forum is moderated, but none of my posts are showing up.
                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        scott@loves.tech
                                        wrote on 31 Mar 2025, 04:29 last edited by
                                        #43
                                        https://community.nodebb.org/inbox    delivery rejected: 403 Forbidden    2025-03-30 22:51:57https://community.nodebb.org/inbox    delivery rejected: 403 Forbidden    2025-03-30 23:28:55
                                        J 1 Reply Last reply 31 Mar 2025, 15:30
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                                        • S scott@loves.tech
                                          31 Mar 2025, 04:29
                                          https://community.nodebb.org/inbox    delivery rejected: 403 Forbidden    2025-03-30 22:51:57
                                          https://community.nodebb.org/inbox    delivery rejected: 403 Forbidden    2025-03-30 23:28:55
                                          J This user is from outside of this forum
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                                          julian@community.nodebb.org
                                          wrote on 31 Mar 2025, 15:30 last edited by
                                          #44

                                          @scott@loves.tech Hubzilla is formatting its Notes in a manner I wasn't expecting.

                                          • The group actor is the attributedTo, which is not possible in NodeBB
                                          • The note itself is not addressed to the group actor, only its followers collection
                                          • There is no way to discern without parsing the note content itself who authored the original note.

                                          So at present while I would be able to retrieve the note, without a proper backreference to the group actor, I don't think I can slot it correctly.

                                          Not sure why the received activity is returning a 403, as well.

                                          J 1 Reply Last reply 31 Mar 2025, 15:31
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